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  •  Martinez-Alier discusses Mumford/ Geddes (1+ / 0-)

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    Trotsky the Horse

    As for resistance within the cities, this book is by-and-large about actually existing environmental resistance.  Martinez-Alier couldn't, for instance, find much resistance against cars (as polluting entities) in cities:

    Being still truly a minority, environmental activists cannot cope with every issue.  Hence there is no strong movement against cars in most cities in the world. (164-165)

    For the author, urban resistance falls under the heading of "environmental justice," and connects to things like Louisiana toxic pollution, the Love Canal disaster, the Bhopal disaster, and so on.  Yeah, he recognizes its existence.

    N.B.: Martinez-Alier's socialist cred is reinforced by his presence on the list of editorial groups of the publication Capitalism Nature Socialism...

    "The freeway's concrete way won't show/ you where to run or how to go" -- Jorma Kaukonen

    by Cassiodorus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:19:17 AM PDT

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    •  Gosh, (1+ / 0-)

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      Cassiodorus

      I think even in 2002 there were urban ecology movements. As for the "Socialist" label, in Europe that would put you in a fairly conservative group as far as ecopolitics go.

      Anyhoo. Thanks for the Reds-up...uh, heads-up.

      Founder and CFO, The Giddiyap Society.

      by Trotsky the Horse on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:28:33 AM PDT

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      •  CNS is an ecosocialist publcation (0+ / 0-)

        The ecosocialists take a position critical of the capitalist environmentalism of "die Grunen" and such, so they are to the left of all that.  If you want to see how they see themselves in their social milieu, I can recommend Derek Wall's book Babylon and Beyond.

        I'm sure Martinez-Alier knows about urban ecology movements.  It's a fact, however, that cities are ecologically unsustainable in themselves; they require constant input from rural peripheries in order to continue operation as cities.  My own efforts go largely into dealing with that unsustainability: the Pomona College Natural Farm is a little oasis in the middle of one of America's largest metropoli.

        "The freeway's concrete way won't show/ you where to run or how to go" -- Jorma Kaukonen

        by Cassiodorus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:42:35 AM PDT

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        •  Yeah, well. (1+ / 0-)

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          Cassiodorus

          It's also a fact that rural areas are also ecologically unsustainable - that is, outside of a romanticized view of "Nature."

          And now, if you'll excuse me, I need to send off a package, and guess what? cardboard boxes don't grow on trees, but they're pretty easy to recycle from city streets.

          Founder and CFO, The Giddiyap Society.

          by Trotsky the Horse on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:56:35 AM PDT

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          •  The farmers in Tabasco (2+ / 0-)

            have had little to no loss of soil fertility over millenia of farming.  "Millenia" is enough sustainability for me.

            It's not a romanticized view of nature that's at work here; just straightforward agroecological knowledge, of the type that capitalist agribusiness has attempted to destroy...

            "The freeway's concrete way won't show/ you where to run or how to go" -- Jorma Kaukonen

            by Cassiodorus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:03:30 AM PDT

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            •  The farmers in Tabasco (1+ / 0-)

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              Cassiodorus

              have had millenia (close to three, I reckon), of close interaction with a complex culture of production and exchange that did not necessarily draw a fixed line between the urban and the rural. Tikal, for instance, appears to have been a vast, self-sustaining agro-urban, commercial and religious center. A nice chunk of the religious narrative was recycling - including the recycling of human bodies. People is Soylent Green no matter where they live.

              Founder and CFO, The Giddiyap Society.

              by Trotsky the Horse on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:28:30 AM PDT

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            •  Traveling in Central and South America and (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Cassiodorus

              seeing Maya women farming corn - and in Guatemala brocoli, etc on steep slopes  - and in Peru seeing some of the Incas' intricate water systems still in use for agriculture (even in an otherwise desert)- has helped my appreciation of how, if one keeps it simple, but is clever with use of water and does not abuse the soil and respects the Earth (Pachamama), it's possible  (though barely) to have sustainable food production.

              Buy a Boat. Save the Seed.

              by cumberland sibyl on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 08:35:28 AM PDT

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